Tuesday, February 01, 2005

Dutch flag prohibited!

Boys with prohibited Dutch flagsCals College in IJsselstein has prohibited two of it's students to have Dutch flags on their bags.

The 16 year old boy and his friend where told by the director of their school that they "urgently should consider" to remove the Dutch flags from their bags, it could provoke other students, mainly Moroccan students. The two considered the urgent request of the school as a prohibition.

But now biggest Dutch newspaper the Telegraaf made the story public and many Dutch are angry. Several parents of other students on the school have contacted the newspaper and say they are not surprised about what the school did, they think the school is afraid. One of the parents of the two boys thinks the same. "My son had trouble with some of these boys, but now he thinks the school blames him".

But the management of the school denies to have acted out of fear. They say they have merely acted with the security of the students in mind. They also deny the prohibition. "We wanted to start the dialog to make clear that we did not think the flag's where a good idea. That's all, he could decide him self" director Rooijen said.

Parliamentary members reacted surprised. Socialist (PvdA) and conservative Geert Wilders (independent) are going to ask the minister (CDA) questions. Wilders: "The use of out flag can not be prohibited". But the two government parties do not think so, they argue it is a matter between the school and the students.

As a result the school was on the evening news and interviews where taken in front of the school. The school has now send a letter to all the parents. In the letter they write that they try to prevent problems between students and that they do not prohibit the flag unless it is meant to hurt others peoples feelings. They say that they are proud on the students and teachers who together work on a good atmosphere and safe environment.

In a radio interview, one of the boys was asked if he was a racist. He denied and told the reporter that his mother was black. When he was asked about the incident that lead to the prohibition he explained that he had some verbal exchange with a Moroccan boy during competition swimming. As a result a group Moroccan then threatened him on school. At that moment the boy went to the school director.

Update (2005 feb 1):
Daily news paper Telegraaf now says that their are more schools who ban the Dutch flag. They write that Groene Hart Lyceum in Alphen aan den Rijn already ban the Dutch flag for nearly a year. They deny access to students who have flags on their bags or cloth. The school says they need to do this because of the new social climate. But they say prohibition is a big word, they do it in consent with the pupils...


This was a VMBO school with lots of immigrants. See also:
Moroccan youth at school

DowneastBlog has also a good rant on this item:
GET MFBB SOME DRAMAMINE PLEASE. HE FEELS KIND OF SICK...

Source: Telegraaf, Letter to the parents

413 Comments:

Blogger the adventuress said...

I would be interested to know if the school banned Moroccan flags as well as Dutch ones. If not, then definitely it's a case of unfair bias.

8:13 PM  
Blogger DutchReporter said...

One of the boys in the interview said, that others had foreign flags.

But I do not see, how our national binding symbol, our flag, can ever be prohibited. People, who are provoked by our flag, don't belong under that flag!

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a American and a New Yorker I have to say this politically correct movement that is sweeping the planet will be the downfall of our great nations.

Even here in America where leftists are now mainstream.

Do not tolerate the defeatist and pessimistic attitudes of the liberal and the elitist left.

Please all of you Dutch! Have courage! Wear your colors with PRIDE! Many of your grandmothers and grandfathers have fought and DIED for those colors...Are you going to let the nazi's I mean ISLAM win?

3:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AS a Canadian, I regret to hear of such developments in the country 2 of my mother's uncles died to liberate. It seems that if it continues, I will someday have reason to doubt whether what my country sacrificed for Holland was really worth it...

9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an Englishman directed to this site by a link I am not surprised. Schools have become hotbeds of political bias. If these boys are told not to wear their national symbol, I suggest mass protest. Get all the kids who are Dutch to display the flag on THEIR bags too.
Tell the foreigners that if they don't like it, to go home.
Watch the school authorities back down!

8:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The national flag of your country is not something to be ashamed of, but is a focal point for all citzens; a source of pride. When your flag has to be banned in case you upset migrants, then the flag is not the problem, but the cowards who enforce the ban. Sack the cowards and if the migrants don't like the flag of your country, they know where the airports are.
England has the same problem. We are beginning to fight back and I would advise you to do the same.
Fly your flag with pride and our hopes and wishes go with you, our neighbours.

10:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for bringing this story to my attn. As an American (immigrant), I often look to Europe as a kind of "test ground" for our own leftist's more radical ideas. It appears, with little surprise, that dogmatic PC notions of tolerance don't work well when people hate you. Here's to hoping you guys get it right. There's nothing wrong w/ taking pride in your own country.

Peter
www.impleader.com

1:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As the daughter of a British soldier who fought to help free Holland from the Nazis, I find this horrifying. Political correctness has become nothing more than a name for craven fear and appeasement. I agree with the poster who said all the Dutch students should appear at school showing their flag. The message should be clear--live by the laws of Holland, respect rather than abuse our proud heritage of freedom and tolerance or leave.

2:30 PM  
Blogger USMale said...

I don't think the school authorities went far enough. What about banning speaking Dutch? As a matter of fact, why not ban the Dutch from Holland? That way, the Muslims will not be offended by them at all. And we all know that it is the inalienable right of every Muslim never to be offended. That's their culture, and we have to respect it...

This incident encapsulates everything that is wrong with liberalism. Has anyone ever read James Burham's "Liberalism: the Suicide of the West". It was written in the 60's, about communism, but it is still true.

Shameful stuff. Deeply shameful.

5:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My father was born in Groningen days after the end of World War II, and even though his family moved to America when he was only eight, he has always, always, had the Dutch flag flying next to our American flag, as have I. A flag is a symbol of national unity, in many ways an article that defines a great deal of who one is, and in Holland that is more true than many other countries, as it fought for so long against such overwhelming odds to be able to point to that flag and say, "see, that is us, we belong to it and no other flag, and we will never lose the right to say that again!" That right should not be surrendered now, because someone is afraid of offending someone else. Dutch culture is largely one of tolerance, so why is it now that some are willing to ban their own flag because of someone else's intolerance? This is not the fault of those boys, it is the fault of a culture that despises tolerance and progressiveness, which is precisely why these schools need to stand up for the flags, not denounce their proud display! Trust me, as an American, we're used to people hating our flag, mostly because of others' intolerance, but we will never cover that symbol of national honor, as neither should your great and fine nation. Cherish what it means to be Dutch, don't let fear begin to rule the day. It saddens me immeasurably to hear this, it truly does...

9:04 PM  
Blogger CDR Salamander said...

Hey, where do we buy those two 16yr olds a beer or subscription to National Review?

Good luck to the Dutch. The best exchange officers I have served with were from the Dutch Navy....and they have the happiest ships of any fleet I have seen. I have my theories.....

Anyway, good luck to my Dutch friends. I hope they see how close they are to loosing everything to a polar opposite, retrograde culture of Islamofascism.

11:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is as though the civilized countries have collectively lost the will to exist and the lie of “Multiculturalism” (i.e. that all cultures are equal) is the poison they have chosen to accomplish their suicide.

There is not one nation in the history of humanity that has responded to aggression with appeasement that has not lived to regret it.

Please wake up from your slumber. The barbarians are not at the gate, they are inside the gates and are looting the city.

Is it already too late? I wonder what percentage of the Dutch population is now made up of immigrants from muslim countries?

The captains of your vessel have been steering towards the rocks for decades now. Will not someone take the wheel and steer towards safety?

11:49 PM  
Blogger delftsman3 said...

My father was born in Bevujuick(sic), My mother in Amsterdam and I was born in Rotterdam. We emigrated to the U.S. in 1957. My father and his sisters fought with the Dutch Underground to fight this kind of BS. It's truly sad to see that now the Dutch officials are imposing it on the people themselves.

I was truly sickened that this could happen in Holland. Tolerance was one thing that the Dutch have always seemed to exhibit in the right way. Now it seems that PC has struck true tolerance down.

BLOG

1:08 AM  
Blogger Robin said...

This isn't bias or political correctness. This is the Dutch acknowleging that they are an occupied country.

1:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Netherlands used to be a country I loved to visit. Now it has become a hotbed of intolerance on both sides.

A flag is really just a piece of cloth and not worse making such a fuzz over.

1:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is very disheartening to see some of the Europeans roll over like dogs anytime someone living in their country as guests screams about how unfair their society is. It just reminds me of the statement I have heard about Muslims...they don't immigrate, they invade. True, not all Muslims are like that, but I have yet to run into more than a handful that feel grateful to be in a free society. I urge the Europeans to grow a set of balls and fight for their countries before it is too late. I wish I were kidding. I suggest a new bumpersticker: Holland, Love It Or Leave It.

5:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoever said a "flag is just a piece of cloth" has NEVER had to fight for their own freedom. You should be ashamed of yourself.

5:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live in a summer, tourist area. Local business often display flags at their entrances that say "we are open" and the flags are very similar to the Dutch flag. So much, the local Dutch people complained, and out of respect, business owners stopped using these little attention-grabbers.

I think the best Dutch have left Holland long ago, and what is left may not be worth the struggle required to protect and save a once proud,worthwhile culture.

9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the language of maritime service lowering the national flag symbolizes saluting another nations ships. To ban the Flag means you have "struck your colors" surrendered your self, men and ship unconditionally, forget yor freedom, your liberal sex interaction, forget your rights as free men and women to wear what you wish, forget the music and forget the hair cuts and shaved faces.
You are now Dar Al Islam.
your women are their for the taking.

12:59 AM  
Blogger Joe Noory said...

Good luck indeed. They have to live with the incredible hang-up of their parents generation.

2:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why blame the Muslims? In the US the PC Police does similarly ridiculous things. Those things are done to pander to American minorities a majority of whom are not Muslims. So the blame lies with the Dutch school administrators and not the 1.4 billion Muslims.

2:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the Dutch flag is "insulting to Muslim immigrants", you have jihadists in your midst.

"Even people who have an bumpersticker with the flag on their car are harassed and called a fascist by the Muslims." People who come to a country and then attack it's citizens for displaying their national identity, should be arrested then deported. They did not come to assimilate but to conquer.

Stand up for your rights and your country.

4:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is absolutely ridiculous! You've got to take a national stand against the invaders. You've got to stop the inflitrators.

I read, that in Sweden the police, fire and rescue workers refuse to enter some predominately muslim neighborhoods because of the roving gangs of violent muslim youths who would instantly attack them. Meanwhile someone's going to die or their home burn to the ground.

It's not about racism, it's about culture and a national identity. The new imigrants are not integrating they are taking over.

Let the deportations begin...

2:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it teaches two things:
1 Stop fughting !
2 Don't die for colours !

1:04 PM  
Anonymous Xiaoding said...

Is your country worth saving? Only you know. But waiting for the majority to come to their senses is a losing stategy. Only a concerted action by a committed minority can save your country now. You must decide to fight...or leave, I guess. No shame leaving, the shame is on those who stay and bow.

Those who would ban your flag must pay in blood for their folly...fear is the only thing they understand. You must decide to fear the Lord, but not the enemy. The Muslims are much less of an enemy than the traitors amongst you. If you don't make them pay, who will?

Take to the streets. Repay insults with punches, punches with knives, they beat you up, you send them to the morgue. It's a small country, and time is short. Who will fight for Holland?

Xiaoding

1:09 AM  
Anonymous Hans said...

Very interesting, but unfortunately not at all surprising. Like mentioned before here, it seems that there is a consensus that muslims have a right to go through life without ever getting offended or challenged. Horrendous.

5:18 PM  
Anonymous Hans said...

Very interesting, but unfortunately not at all surprising. Like mentioned before here, it seems that there is a consensus that muslims have a right to go through life without ever getting offended or challenged. Horrendous.

5:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fuck dhimmitude! Revolt, Dutchmen!

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-sorry for the english mistakes-

I think only dutch people can really say where this article is all about and give a solution.

I know it's ridiculous when you're prohibited to wear a dutch flag on your schoolbag, especially in a country where 'freedom of speech'is an important value.

But I think you just can't instance this thing for the daily life in the Netherlands. Maybe the students were only prohibited in THIS situation; we are talking about a VMBO school.

Besides, this whole thing deals in a country where relation between the native population and foreigners is quite sensitive.

I really think the number of dutch teenagers, especially the VMBO-students, with racist -almost nazi- thoughts is increasing.

Maybe prohibitation isn't the best solution but can you think of a better one? And at least this doesn't result in conflicts between these VMBO-students.

A dutch student

ps. The Telegraaf isn't the biggest newspaper; it's only the paper with the greatest amount of sensational news, without any moral value.

9:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what does the flag symbolize?

9:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is just a classic example of wooly headed leftism.Ah live in Glasgow in a housing estate filled with so called refugees who don`t have the common courtesy to hold a door open for you and treat you like a piece ov shit.When are we gonny stand up to these people and say "we tried tae help ye but ye abused our trust now get tae fuck"

12:15 PM  
Anonymous FornaxUltor said...

Stand Strong Netherlands. All the decent world loves you. You have always been a shining example for all the world. Never doubt that and always keep it in mind during the fight ahead which I am sad to say-surely shall come.
-an American friend

7:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have never understood nationalism and I don't need a flag to know who I am or to defend myself against the onslaught of radical Islam. Let's not play the race card. What we are dealing with here are clashing ideologies.

A concerned European

4:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

De enige mensen die er een probleem me zouden kunnen hebben zijn "gasten". Het maakt helemaal niks uit wat "gasten" van onze Nederlandse vlag denken. We hoeven zeker geen rekening met hun mening te houden. Als zij er iets tegen zoude zeggen dan zouden zij "onbeschofte gasten" zijn. Ongeschofte gasten zijn nooit welkom. Laat het Rood-Wit-Blauw dus maar heust zien!!!

5:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a Dutch American and most of my family lives in Holland, and I like visiting whenever I can.

This article is missing some crucial information, but it appears that the school officials are bending backwards to please the Moroccan students at the expense of the Dutch students. Don't the Dutch students have rights and freedom of expression too?

If Dutch students are attacked by Morrocan students for displaying the flag, get the Moroccan students in trouble, not the Dutch ones ... It's not like it's a schwastika, it's the national flag!

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is insane, and cowardly. If you live in a country you can fly or display the flag of that country. This is just Dutch liberality gone insane, and fear of Moslems living in the Netherlands. Who cares what the Moroccan students think? They are not living in Morocco, they are living in the Netherlands: if they don't like the Dutch flag they can go back to Morocco to live. God damn all self-hating white liberals without the backbone to be themselves. This is destroying the West.

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I have to work, but I can't resist to react on this:

first: Dutch flags do work provocative on some of the youth of migrant descendence. Other flags are not easily seen in the Netherlands as provocative

I think once again it boils down to prejudice. In this case the prejudice is attached to the symbol of the flag: people wearing a flag = extremely nationalist people and people that are extremely nationalist equals people that have racial prejudices that they take seriously.

So in this case: the youth feel offended, because they perceive someone wearing a dutch flag as someone who is prejudiced against them.

I think this connotation of the own national flag is widespread and lives also in other european countries (Germany, France). Because of this - how strange - the symbol of the flag is not commonly accepted.

I erased most of the rest that I had written - I didn't manage to write anything that I was satisfied enough with (and I really have to work now :) ).

I just want to leave my general reflections on the problems in Europe at the moment:

1. I think the worlds biggest problem is that people take their negative prejudice too serious (which can make them act on it) and
2. in my view the most common prejudice (always and everywhere) is that the other person is negatively prejudiced against you.

There is much more to say about this and in fact I could make it much more concrete.
Anyone who'd like to discuss about this idea with me, I'd like to invite to my blog. I'll start an item there about this in English:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/martijnijzereef/

Have a good evening/night/day! (depending on where you live ;))

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can help you reduce your interest burden by charging an interest rate lower than the rate on your existing loans. Debt consolidation loan can also allow you to make small monthly payments by extending the loan period
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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Debt Consolidation
In the United States, federal student loans are consolidated somewhat differently, as federal student loans are guaranteed by the U.S. government. In a federal student loan consolidation, existing loans are purchased and closed by a loan consolidation company or by the Department of Education (depending on what type of federal student loan the borrower holds). Interest rates for the consolidation are based on that year's student loan rate, which is in turn based on the 91-day Treasury bill rate at the last auction in May of each calendar year.

Student loan rates can fluctuate from the current low of 4.70% to a maximum of 8.25% for federal Stafford loans, 9% for PLUS loans. The current consolidation program allows students to consolidate once with a private lender, and reconsolidate again only with the Department of Education. Upon consolidation, a fixed interest rate is set based on the then-current interest rate. Reconsolidating does not change that rate. If the student combines loans of different types and rates into one new consolidation loan, a weighted average calculation will establish the appropriate rate based on the then-current interest rates of the different loans being consolidated together.

Federal student loan consolidation is often referred to as refinancing, which is incorrect because the loan rates are not changed, merely locked in. Unlike private sector debt consolidation, student loan consolidation does not incur any fees for the borrower; private companies make money on student loan consolidation by reaping subsidies from the federal government.

Student loan consolidation can be beneficial to students' credit rating, but it's important to note that not all federal student loan consolidation companies report their loans to all credit bureaus.
Debt Consolidation entails taking out one loan to pay off many others. This is often done to secure a lower interest rate, secure a fixed interest rate or for the convenience of servicing only one loan.

Debt consolidation can simply be from a number of unsecured loans into another unsecured loan, but more often it involves a secured loan against an asset that serves as collateral, which is most commonly a house (in this case a mortgage is secured against the house.) The collateralization of the loan allows a lower interest rate than without it, because by collateralizing, the asset owner agrees to allow the forced sale (foreclosure) of the asset in order to pay back the loan. The risk to the lender is reduced so the interest rate offered is lower.

Sometimes, debt consolidation companies can discount the amount of the loan. When the debtor is in danger of bankruptcy, the debt consolidator will buy the loan at a discount. A prudent debtor can shop around for consolidators who will pass along some of the savings. Consolidation can affect the ability of the debtor to discharge debts in bankruptcy, so the decision to consolidate must be weighed carefully.

Debt consolidation is often advisable in theory when someone is paying credit card debt. Credit cards can carry a much larger interest rate than even an unsecured loan from a bank. Debtors with property such as a home or car may get a lower rate through a secured loan using their property as collateral. Then the total interest and the total cash flow paid towards the debt is lower allowing the debt to be paid off sooner, incurring less interest. In practice, many people are in credit card debt because they spend more than their income. If that habit continues, the consolidation will not benefit them much because they will simply increase their credit card balances again.

Because of the theoretical advantage that debt consolidation offers a consumer that has high interest debt balances, companies can take advantage of that benefit of refinancing to charge very high fees in the debt consolidation loan. Sometimes these fees are near the state maximum for mortgage fees. In addition, some unscrupulous companies will knowingly wait until a client has backed themselves into a corner and must refinance in order to consolidate and pay off bills that they are behind on the payments. If the client does not refinance they may lose their house, so they are willing to pay any allowable fee to complete the debt consolidation. In some cases the situation is that the client does not have enough time to shop for another lender with lower fees and may not even be fully aware of them. This practice is known as predatory lending. Certainly many, if not most, debt consolidation transactions do not involve predatory lending.



Student Loan Consolidation

In the United States, federal student loans are consolidated somewhat differently, as federal student loans are guaranteed by the U.S. government. In a federal student loan consolidation, existing loans are purchased and closed by a loan consolidation company or by the Department of Education (depending on what type of federal student loan the borrower holds). Interest rates for the consolidation are based on that year's student loan rate, which is in turn based on the 91-day Treasury bill rate at the last auction in May of each calendar year.

Student loan rates can fluctuate from the current low of 4.70% to a maximum of 8.25% for federal Stafford loans, 9% for PLUS loans. The current consolidation program allows students to consolidate once with a private lender, and reconsolidate again only with the Department of Education. Upon consolidation, a fixed interest rate is set based on the then-current interest rate. Reconsolidating does not change that rate. If the student combines loans of different types and rates into one new consolidation loan, a weighted average calculation will establish the appropriate rate based on the then-current interest rates of the different loans being consolidated together.

Federal student loan consolidation is often referred to as refinancing, which is incorrect because the loan rates are not changed, merely locked in. Unlike private sector debt consolidation, student loan consolidation does not incur any fees for the borrower; private companies make money on student loan consolidation by reaping subsidies from the federal government.

Student loan consolidation can be beneficial to students' credit rating, but it's important to note that not all federal student loan consolidation companies report their loans to all credit bureaus; Experian or Transunion, which means that students will have differing credit scores at Equifax Transunion, and Experian.



Mortgage Loan Types
There are many types of mortgage loans. The two basic types of amortized loans are the fixed rate mortgage (FRM) and adjustable rate mortgage.

US-mortgage-rates-30yrFix.U.S. Historical mortgage rates for a 30-year FRM.

In a FRM, the interest rate, and hence monthly payment, remains fixed for the life (or term) of the loan. In the U.S., the term is usually for 10, 15, 20, or 30 years. The only increase a consumer might see in their monthly payments would result from an increase in their property taxes or insurance rates (paid using an escrow account, if they've opted to use an escrow). But payments for principal and interest will be consistent throughout the life of the loan using an FRM.

In an ARM, the interest rate is fixed for a period of time, after which it will periodically (annually or monthly) adjust up or down to some market index. Common indices in the U.S. include the Prime Rate, the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR), and the Treasury Index ("T-Bill"). Other indexes like 11th District Cost of Funds Index, COSI, and MTA, are also available but are less popular.

Adjustable rates transfer part of the interest rate risk from the lender to the borrower, and thus are widely used where unpredictable interest rates make fixed rate loans difficult to obtain. Since the risk is transferred, lenders will usually make the initial interest rate of the ARM's note anywhere from 0.5% to 2% lower than the average 30-year fixed rate.

In most scenarios, the savings from an ARM outweigh its risks, making them an attractive option for people who are planning to keep a mortgage for ten years or less.

Additionally, lenders rely on credit reports and credit scores derived from them. The higher the score, the more creditworthy the borrower is assumed to be. Favorable interest rates are offered to buyers with high scores. Lower scores indicate higher risk to the lender, and lenders require higher interest rates in such scenarios to compensate for increased risk.

A partial amortization or balloon loan is one where the amount of monthly payments due are calculated (amortized) over a certain term, but the outstanding principal balance is due at some point short of that term. This payment is sometimes referred to as a "balloon payment". A balloon loan can be either a Fixed or Adjustable in terms of the Interest Rate. Many Second Trust mortgages use this feature. The most common way of describing a ''balloon loan'' uses the terminology X due in Y, where X is the number of years over which the loan is amortized, and Y is the year in which the principal balance is due. A contract could be written up so there would be more than one "balloon payment" required to be paid during the life of the loan.

Other loan types
Assumed mortgage
Blanket loan
Bridge loan
Budget loan
Commercial Loan
Deed of trust
Equity loan
Hard money loan
Jumbo mortgages
Package loan
Participation mortgage
Reverse mortgage
Repayment mortgage
Seasoned mortgage
Term loan or Interest-only loan
Wraparound mortgage
Negative amortization loan
Non-Conforming Mortgage


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